Roy Horan - that same colorful “bearded white fighter”, known to fans of kung fu films, primarily for his work with Jackie Chan in the picture"Snake in the Eagle's Shadow"If Roy had not ended up in Hong Kong, who knows what the fate of Jackie himself would have been like.
Translation into Russian of an interview with Roy Horan
PART 1:
Bulat Nizamov: Greetings, my name is Bulat. Today I'm in Hong Kong. It is my honor and pleasure to meet Roy today. I can’t say with confidence, but perhaps if Roy had not gotten to Hong Kong, we would not know Jackie Chan now. Who knows what could have happened...
Roy Horan: Ha ha!
Bulat: You are now a professor at the Hong Kong Polytechnic University, right?
Roy: I am now an assistant professor. I mean, I still work at the university, but I started my own company.
B: You are not only an actor and martial artist, you are also engaged in scientific activities and developing yourself. In my opinion, this is a great example of the heights a man, a man, can achieve. So if you have something to share with the younger generation, we would be very happy to hear.
Could you please talk briefly about how you got into films and how you got those roles, with acting and everything?
Р: I was in a movie called Snuff Bottle Connection (1977). The main villain there was Hwang Jang Lee. Even before we starred in this film together, we had some kind of relationship: he taught me taekwondo.
How did it all come to this? In the sense: did you travel or did you have any business there?
Where, in Taiwan? Oh, there's a backstory to this.
Tell me.
Actually, how it came to this. I ended up in Japan, where I studied martial arts.
I mean the very original reason. Why did you go there?
To Taiwan?
To Taiwan or Japan. Study martial arts?
There's a backstory to this too! To put it in general, I am a researcher by nature, I am extremely curious about life - what it is like and what it means. I'm curious about the limits of human capabilities and my own limits too. I spent many, many years in university activities, that is, my past is connected with science and also with literature. Therefore, when I finished studying, I decided for myself that I wanted to do something different, something that would be meaningful. I needed to save some money, so I worked at the University of Alberta as a research fellow in archeology. I saved up some money and bought a canoe. By that time I had met an Israeli who wanted to join me. You were canoeing along the Hay River all the way to Great Slave Lake, and we were heading towards the Arctic Ocean. We rowed. It took us, I think, ten days, about two weeks, to reach the Mackenzie River. Many adventures happened along the way. We then entered an Indian settlement known as Fort Good Hope.
How old were you?
I think it was the spring ice melt of 1972.
Why did I do all this? When you spend your life at university, your entire reality and view of the world is books. That is, you can move from books to work, become a banker, scientist, etc. But for myself, I decided that I wanted to face life.
So I went to the Arctic. Stopped at Fort Good Hope. Fort Good Hope is an Indian settlement. It's about seven to eight hundred kilometers if you follow the Mackenzie. And then we... Of course, the Indians didn't like us at first, like the whites.
But didn't you take a local Canadian Indian as your escort?
No.
So there were two of you and that’s it?
Yeah, it's just the two of us and that's it.
Did you use the card? How did you understand where to move?
We had a river map...
There were probably a lot of surprises with the river map.
Certainly. We... I actually had a lot of adventures in my life.
And the temperature too.
And the temperature too. So. We arrived at Fort Good Hope. And, in short, the little Indians, the children, threw stones at our tent. So we decided to channel their energy into something useful - we started teaching them baseball. And, of course, parents watched how white guys taught their children a certain game. They became curious, they called us over, we drank tea together, and exchanged some food. Then they ask me what I'm going to do next. I said that I wanted to go live in uncultivated areas, in wild conditions. My friend, of course, did not share my desire. He wanted to reach the Arctic Ocean and fly away. And this meant the end of the journey and (half as many adventures). They laughed at me. However, there was someone who decided to accept the challenge - to take me with him into the wild lands during the fishing season. So, having settled in the Arctic, I experienced many, many adventures over a period of about two to two and a half years. And that was a great success, because they taught me the secrets of their way of life.
How do you eat fresh meat?
Yes, all wild meat and fish. Several times I came close to death. Wild adventures happened to me, which we may talk about a little later. I kind of want to stay on topic.
Of course.
So all of this, these two and a half years have made me a very strong guy. To give you an idea, we had to snowshoe any distance - from thirty to a hundred miles a day, that's on snowshoes. We had to carry the tree. It happened that I was carrying four trees on my shoulders, and I had to drag them a distance of five hundred meters or more through the bush. We had to use axes and chop all sorts of things. I had to do fishing and hunting. Well, you yourself mentioned temperature.
I suspect it's somewhere below minus forty? Celsius.
Well, the record high in those parts was minus sixty Fahrenheit.
How much is this in Celsius?
Celsius... about fifty-six, minus.
Fifty-six... that is, if you urinate, then...
Yeah, the jet froze on the fly, for sure. Plus, because I’m a guy—and the guys go out on their own for a long time—I spent a lot of time alone in the wild and we slept in the snow. Even in those temperatures, a person can learn how to survive, without any igloos, you learn to survive on...
Right in the snow.
Yes, right in the snow.
No fire? Without shelter?
No, of course, you will light a fire, but there is no shelter.
Ага.
No no. Only a fire and overnight stay in the snow. In general, to live in such conditions, in such temperatures, to hunt, you need the following: first, to be strong; second, be very, very quick to react, because there are animals there. So I was probably in better shape than I've ever been in my life. Olympic level. I remember the first year I was talking about the Olympics to (Joe Nariva Bisca), the guy I went into the wilderness with the first year. He talked about marathon races. He says: “Wow, they’re running. How far?" I say: “Well, about twenty-six miles.” He looks at me: “Twenty-six miles and that’s it?” Twenty-six miles is like going to the toilet and back. Ha ha! He laughed, he thought it was so funny. And he says, "We're doing twenty-six miles, snowshoeing through the snow."
That's the difference.
Yeah, that was a completely different way of existence. But, as I said, I was lucky because they accepted me and taught me my way of life. And as far as I understood, as they told me, I was the only white person in their entire history who had ever lived the same life as them.
They speak English, right?
A little in English, a little in French, and, of course, in my native dialect. Anthropologists and other people came to see them there; spent several weeks in the camp with them.
Yeah, I see. It turns out that this is literally a training camp, better than in the army.
Yeah, much harsher than the army. I was in great shape. And then, when I went to Japan in this state, I decided...
But why did you go there? To the championship or somewhere?
No.
Just “why not”?
First I visited the Arctic. And I went there because, as a student, you ask questions about what you will do with your life. I have developed intuition, and sometimes I foresee the future. So, for example, I was sitting in the university library, where there was a large globe on the table, and I was spinning it, trying to understand what place on this planet looks or seems the most interesting. And I chose a point that was white, in the Northwest Territories of Canada. And there the Mackenzie River curved somewhat. Many years later—I did not have a detailed map—I discovered that Fort Good Hope was located right on this bend. That is, I really ended up there. When I returned from the Arctic to Edmonton, Canada, my Israeli friend met me; when I went into the wilderness, he returned to the south.
So you were alone?
Yes, I was alone. ...he said, "So what's our next adventure?" And then I had a premonition, I answered: “We will go to Japan.” And he asked: “What’s there in Japan?” I replied: “Well, I see an image of the two of us, driving back and forth in a very, very large Rolls-Royce, here in Japan, and living quite well now.” He’s a business-minded guy, and that’s why he tells me: “Okay, I’ll sign up, this is better than the Arctic!” This guy had previously studied Satori, a style of karate.
Satori, understandable.
I looked at him as he moved. And I was interested in martial arts. Before that, I watched a film with Bruce Lee. So I thought and said: “Yes, we’re going to Japan, and maybe we’ll learn martial arts there.” When we arrived in Tokyo, no one there spoke English at that time.
At what times?
Something around '74. So we went to the studio (Gogani Ama Guchi) and looked at Goju-ryu, another Japanese style. However, I didn't get the feeling that we should stay in Tokyo, someone mentioned Kyoto at the same time. And I thought, “Okay, let’s go to Kyoto.” I went there and enrolled in Seibukan Academy.
Were they open to Westerners?
Well, I think they saw it as an opportunity, the head of the school saw an opportunity to have a couple of guys from the West on board. Many people studied there.
So, I achieved brown belt at Seibukan School. But I wasn’t particularly interested there, because, in general, I coped with every opponent, even teachers, and no one could defeat me. Once I learned a few techniques, I couldn't find anyone to teach me like this. I could learn the techniques, but when it comes to actual combat... remember, I'm a very tough guy, haha!
Exactly!
Therefore, what was there to do? Then we went and started learning... wait, my friend stopped. He stopped practicing martial arts and became involved in business in Japan. Well, I continued in Shorinji Kempo. Shorinji Kempo is a Zen Buddhist style. Shorinji-kempo means "Shaolin Temple" in Japanese. This is a spiritual movement in Japan, but at the same time they teach martial arts. Origins Shaolin, Chinese. A guy named Doshin So learned this in China. In general, I liked Shorinji Kempo because it had Zen, that is, a philosophical part, and there was no “go and kill them”, rather this style is more related to self-defense, combining kempo with aikido, in terms of movement and other things. That is, it was not a killer thing at all, but I liked it, I liked the atmosphere, I liked training in the temple and things like that.
Yes, great.
It was fun. So, I received my black belt. To do this, you must first pass the written exam and then fight. First they put first level black belts in front of you, and as long as you don't lose, you continue to compete.
How many are there in total? How many people?
I think there were about six of us in total, then candidates for black belt, five or six. Most stopped at about the second level of black belts. That is, most of those guys lost at the first level. I moved to the second level and beat everyone on it. Then I moved up to the third level of black belts and beat them all. I was already starting to get tired. Then they put fourth level black belts against me, and I beat them all. And finally, there were two level fives.
(Laughs) The first guy at level five seriously tried to take me down, because it was such a big loss of face.
Oh yes, indeed, of course...
It was very difficult for him to be with me.
He probably still remembers it.
And another level five thought that I was tired and too angry. So he probably just decided, “Okay, let’s just play.” In the end we had a funny fight. It dawned on me that he had reduced his strength, so we fought pretend.
PART 2:
So. I was able to hold out in battles. And then it turned out that I seemed to score the highest result in the Zen Buddhist exam, compared to others, there were foreigners: a guy from Sweden, from Canada, something like that. So, I scored the highest score on the philosophical exam and showed myself very well in the combat department, in free combat. So the teacher wanted me to go to the United States and establish a branch school there in America. To which I replied: “Your Honor, I appreciate your offer and really love this style, but there are other things I would like to do in life, so let’s just stay in touch.” And he handed me a good book signed by So Dosin. They actually send the books to Seo Dosin for him to sign. My master also signed, his name was Morikawa Sensei, he also left his signature. The result was a nice gift reminiscent of Shorinji Kempo. After that I ended up in Taiwan. This was the next stage of my journey, Taiwan. And my friend stayed in Japan, taking up entrepreneurship. Once in Taiwan, I met a guy named Larry Tan. Apparently he is now in New York, continuing to teach kung fu, which he has probably been doing for many years; he trains movie and music stars and similar people, celebrities. In Taiwan I stayed with Larry and had to start learning Chinese to some extent, since no one here spoke English. And Larry taught me Northern Shaolin Wushu, the Tiger style.
OK...
So, I had fun learning this new principle of movement, instead of the less direct Japanese approach to movement, it's rounded or something. I thought it was quite interesting. And I loved the ruggedness of Tiger's style. A very bloodthirsty style. Probably one of the most brutal animal styles. But maybe that's just one of my sides, haha! One day Larry said: “Come on, let’s try you in a movie as something new.” According to him, there were several foreigners in that film. I replied that I was not very interested in cinema.
How did he come to cinema?
No, he just had friends from those who played in that film.
Oh, got it.
When I was in Japan and my friend and I were doing karate, Toei Production Company (東映株式会社 Tōei Kabushiki-gaisha) contacted us to see if we would like to appear in one of their films. I did not want. I didn’t want to take part in this, I wasn’t interested in cinema. However, my friend appeared in one of the films with master Yamashita Tadashi. Small role. I had no interest.
Then Taiwan?
Yes, so, Taiwan. We visited the filming of the film. Afterwards, a producer approached my friend, he spoke Chinese (Mandarin), and asked: “Does your friend know how to fight?” Of course I can fight. "Ask him if he'd be willing to get beaten up by a Bruce Lee look-alike." Larry passed this on to me, to which I asked, “Why would I do this?” Larry said, “Well, they'll pay you.” “How much will he give me?” He gave me some money, and I thought to myself, “hey, life in Taiwan was quite cheap back then.”
So how much for a role?
R: Well, I wouldn't call it a role, I just had to get beaten up.
Uh, something like a stuntman?
Yeah, something like that, just to be beaten. I think it was about a thousand Taiwanese dollars.
How much it?
A thousand Taiwanese dollars is not much. About fifty US dollars. But in terms of prices for food and living, one could probably live on this amount in Taiwan for a whole month.
It's clear. Not bad.
Therefore, I considered this offer profitable. I thought that I would stay here longer and not have to spend the reserve. I got beat up in the movie. A short time later, the producer contacts Larry and says, “Please call your buddy here. I want to know if he will agree to a role in which he will have to speak.” And I say: “Well, according to the plot, I’m already dead!”
In the same movie? (Laughs)
That is, I ask: “How is this possible?” He replies: “Well, the audience is Chinese, they won’t notice the difference. We’ll just change your clothes a little.” I say: “Well, okay.” They'll change clothes and that's it. I did one scene where I had to speak. After which I thought that this was the end of the film. They paid me extra money for this, I was pleased.
More earnings, right.
Yeah, more earnings. I thought, "Okay." As a child I had to be on stage. I was not much of an actor, but I had an idea of what acting on stage was like. Anyway, about ten days later he comes back and says to Larry, “Would your friend want to play the bad guy in this movie?” And I think to myself: “What kind of scenario is this?” Ha ha! They write something completely random. They achieved what they did in the fight scene. And it was very difficult for me. After all, when someone swings and moves their limbs in my direction, my first reaction is to strike them down.
Hmmm, movies and life are somewhat different.
Yep, they are different. In the movies you can’t really hit anyone, so you need to keep the distance and speed differently, you need to do everything precisely according to science, and so on. This was unfamiliar to me. Therefore, I tried with great difficulty to cope with this role. Despite everything, the film was successful, as it later turned out. Much to our surprise, haha! But I was already in Australia then.
Back in the wild?
Yes, in uninhabited areas of the mainland. But this is a completely different story about Australia. I'll stick to the martial arts theme. Although a story connected with them also happened in Australia. But we will return to this some other time. So (Liang-tee Toe) called me back to Taiwan to star in another of his films. He couldn't pull off this new film, but at that time Hwang Jang Lee was staying at his house. And I often came there, to Hwang Jang Lee. Hwang Jang Lee spoke only very limited Chinese and no English, so we communicated in sign language. He tried to learn a little English, we both tried to learn a little Chinese, and also drew and found other ways to communicate. Initially, we mainly discussed only martial arts. And I realized that this guy is just a genius. After all, in the past I studied physics, so I understood that he was talking about biophysics, about the biomechanics of body movement. Of course, this interested me. And I even asked him: “Do you even teach people anything?” He replied: “No.” He once taught some guy in Korea, and of course he taught someone while he was in Vietnam.
Had he already won the taekwondo championship by then?
I have no idea if he won the championship. But later Hwang Jang Lee became a big man in the world of taekwondo. I’m probably even slightly involved in this, probably the cinema is slightly involved in this. Basically, he was training in Vietnam, he was part of the Tiger branch in Vietnam. Of course, they used taekwondo there for serious purposes. I was interested in all this, and I asked: “Can you teach me some of these movements?” And he replied: “Yes, I will teach you.” Well, then, in fact, he began to train me. This went on for some time. Until we received one piece of work, not from Lianti Du, but from his friend, Lee Man-Yiu. That's how we starred in the film "Communication Through the Jade Bottle." And Yuen Wo Ping was our martial arts choreographer. So I got to meet and fight Yuan Heping, which was also a lot of fun. The film was shot and released.
It was 1978, right?
77th year
Oh yes, 77th.
Everything came to a point where I had a plane ticket back to Canada in my hands.
But you are originally from the USA?
From the USA, yes. But, you know, I didn’t return to the USA for many, many, many years after everything. So, I had a ticket in my hands, I was supposed to fly to Canada, maybe I would go to Vancouver or even to the Arctic - I was undecided. I was a backpacker back then; I packed my Kelti backpack and got ready for my flight, which was supposed to be the next morning or late morning, something like that. And suddenly Hwang Jang Lee calls me and says: “Hey, white, come!” - "Where?" - “Hotel Hilton!” - "For what?" - “The Hong Kong producer wants to see you!”
I ask: “But why?” And he just: “Hmm!” Out of respect for Hwang Jang Lee, I went. That was my last night in Taiwan. Thus, at Hilton I met Wu Siyuan (Ng See-yuen).
But didn't you already know each other? Based on the film “Communication through a Jade Bottle.”
Well, yes, I ran into him once when he was with Lee Man-Yu, when Lee Man-Yu hired me. I think we met for the first time because even then Wu Siyuan discussed with Li Man-Yu the possibility of using me in the film, because The last film was successful, which means that I... how can I say this?.. left a mark on the screens.
Did you light up?
Lit up... appeared on the screens - that’s the right word. That's probably how they reasoned. One way or another, I came to Wu Siyuan’s hotel and asked: “What’s the matter?” And he replies: “Below me is the distribution of the film “Communication through the Jade Bottle” in Hong Kong, and I decided to do a publicity stunt to promote it.” I'm fine". He says the trick is this: in the newspapers they wrote that Hwang Jang Lee can kill a person in less than two minutes; that is, they issued a challenge that could be accepted by anyone from any corner of Asia; and that they are going to stage a fight to the death. He added that there were enough applicants and that: “We chose one guy who is sort of an all-Asian champion in full contact hand-to-hand combat.”
It's illegal, right?
Illegal. I asked him this question: “Isn’t this illegal?” He says, "We'll film this as part of a Golden Harvest Studio documentary." Then I looked at Hwang and asked: “Hwang, are you taking on this?” Hwang replies, “Yes, of course.”
“Like, no problem.”
Yeah, it didn't scare him at all. Then I asked: “Okay, well, why do you need me?” So. To which he replied: “Are you supposed to be Hwang Jang Lee’s student?” I say: “Well, yes.” He: “So, I want you to fight that guy first.” I was surprised: “What?” And I ask: “Why do you need this?”
And then it suddenly dawns on me that I can be sacrificed. I can be sacrificed! Besides, it would allow Hwang Jang Lee to watch us fight. In other words, he would have hedged his bets. You know, this is risk management. And I ask: “Will it really come to something serious?” He replies: “Probably not, but we should be prepared for such a development.” And I ask: “What will I get from this?” And before that I told them that I was flying out the next morning.
Yep, the ticket is lost.
The ticket is lost. He says: “Okay, we’ll buy you another ticket.” OK. And he adds: “Well, if you accept my offer, then perhaps I will invite you to my next film.” And here I stand and think that this is the crappiest offer I've ever heard: no payment; if I survive, then perhaps they will call me for the role; and if I don’t survive, then there will be neither a role nor a ticket.
But you are a strong guy!
Yes, you need to remember that I lived in the Arctic with the Indians!
So.
I also had an enormous ego.
That is, they took him “on the boy.”
Yeah, something like, “Okay, we need to kill some guy.” In fact, I don’t think I would have killed him, because I still don’t feel that ability within myself. But I probably would have hurt him if I had been in a situation where I had to fight him. I said to Wu Siyuan, “Okay, it’s covered.” Hwang Jang Lee was extremely happy because I assume he wanted me to stay in Asia with him. He had something on his mind about our relationship with him.
Comrades, team...
Yes, comrades or something else, but he didn’t want to let me go. So the next thing I know, I'm on a plane to Hong Kong. Of course, the duel to the death never happened. Although we were ready. But it didn’t happen because the only thing that could stop us then was a denunciation to the police; We didn’t report it, but on the part of that guy, the rival’s wife complained. And we arrived at the place to start the battle, and there were a lot of policemen there, and also Triadists. Because, as it turned out, that guy was connected with the Triad, our rival.
Here's the deal.
All in all. Everything ended well with the fight to the death. The film "Communication Through the Jade Bottle" performed well in the market. Hwang Jang Lee got me to stay and we trained together, did all sorts of crazy things, I mean, practiced martial arts. And suddenly one day Wu Siyuan invites me to his office and says: “Here I have a film in which I am going to film a new guy.”
Now I understand where this abbreviation “Ng” came from, where it is on the streets, hehe...
Well, yes, Wu Siyuan (Ng See-yuen), aka Ng. People find it difficult to pronounce U ([Ng]), so his name became simply NG. Basically he says, “We've got a new guy and we're going to make a movie. I would like to give you a role...
Author and translator of the interview: Bulat Nizamov
Especially for JC Russian Club
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Tags: Jackie Chan, Roy Horan, Hwang Jan-lee
Tags: Jackie Chan, Roy Horan, Hwang Jan-lee
Not a bad interview.