Jesse W. Johnson loves cinema. Having worked at various levels of film production since the early 1990s, the English-born filmmaker first made a name for himself in the stunt profession, taking part in high-profile projects such as the original "Remember all", "Starship Troopers", "War of the Worlds" and dozens more. This led to Johnson becoming a stunt coordinator, second unit director, and eventually rising to become an accomplished feature director. Staying true to his stunt background, Johnson directed a number of films, including "Collectors", "Triple Threat" и "Revenge", - well-packed with action sequences (to name just a few), and prioritizing practical effects and the physical capabilities of the actors over expensive CGI-heavy spectacle.
Having gone through this long, thorny path, and becoming one of the key figures in the production of action films, according to true connoisseurs of the genre, he never lost his love for cinema. This fact is quite obvious if you look at his latest work, a dark thriller about the Second World War, "Hell Hath No Fury" (in Russian box office "Ave Maria")
The film tells the story of a bitter three-way conflict over a cache of hidden Nazi gold that erupted in the final days of the war between a ragtag group of American soldiers looking to get rich, deserted German officers and French resistance fighters who unwittingly found themselves in the middle of the action. "Hell Hath No Fury" is full of the mind-blowing stunts that have defined so much of Johnson's career, but beyond that there is a strong story coupled with superb performances from a talented cast, all of which have been transformed by his confident and experienced directorial hand into a truly cinematic experience.
I recently had the opportunity to speak with Jesse W. Johnson about this film, but because of his expected frankness, our lengthy conversation ended up covering not only his new work, but also the philosophy of filmmaking, talk about idols, opinions on the state of modern filmmaking and much more. However, at every moment of our conversation, Johnson's love for cinema shone through more than clearly.
How did you realize that Hell Hath No Fury would be your next project?
Jesse Johnson: When COVID started, I had a premonition... It's been about a month since I settled in my garden and completely switched to farming because I didn't know how long this would all last. But it was cool, I rather like the idea of growing my own corn, tomatoes and onions. In general, I didn't know if it would be a pandemic level "Crazy Max", or something smaller. So, after about three or four weeks of getting bored with growing vegetables and being attacked by caterpillars, I solicited scripts with minimal locations and minimal casts that had no investment. I do this quite often.
I'm drawn to action. I am attracted to dramatic situations and people pushed to their physical limits. We had something like forty-five scripts that made it to the top of the list. My manager, myself, my assistants, I had two assistants at the time, we read the first fifteen to twenty pages, and usually you can immediately feel whether it is it or not. If not, you just move on. So, it's not that big of a feat to go through a whole bunch of scenarios.
And we somehow very quickly noticed that we were using the script "Hell Hath No Fury" as a guide. "Is this better than 'Hell Hath No Fury?'" "No, let's move on." And finally we said, “That’s it, let’s do Hell Hath No Fury.” The script was written in French and translated rather crudely, but still the basic outline of the plot was very, very interesting and truly penetrating. So, I have I had this script in hand, and then I dealt with financing issues that I would hardly have been able to sort out if this pandemic had not happened. But even despite the pandemic, you want to make a movie. You want to continue working, you are eager to fight, so to speak, and I was heard, it worked. Basically, the financier was willing to make any movie where he could use a World War II Jeep. He really, really needed that Jeep so he could write it off as part of the production costs. So, I said, “I think I have the perfect movie.” And so we squeezed ourselves into these rigid boundaries.
We were filming in a very, very remote location, there was no Internet or cell service. In terms of casting, I took all the friends I'd worked with before, people who I knew were willing to take on that kind of endurance test, because it's hard, honestly. All day in the heat and dust. Making a film like this is very, very hard work. This is a daily test of physical endurance. Nina is wearing a silk shirt. She had to shave her head. Everyone gets burns, cuts, splinters. It's hard. It's part of the game, and it's about character development. But it still required a certain type of person, and these were the people I had worked with before. I called them all and they all said yes.
It was one of those great opportunities where you get to work with really close friends. Of course, we isolated ourselves for health reasons and no one could leave. There were no visitors, every day medical examinations, tests were carried out, temperatures were taken and everything like that. In short, all the standard bullshit - lunches were delivered in plastic containers. But it was a great, just amazing filming experience. I think this is noticeable because everyone who was there at that moment lived almost as if all this was actually happening in the 1940s. Nobody updates Instagram or Facebook on his phone, and doesn’t do other similar crap that just distracts him. They lived this specific moment. Personally, the entire filming process seemed truly exciting, exciting and inspiring to me.
I liked that in this film, one way or another, people with whom you have already worked before are involved. It's like having your own acting troupe. I also really liked the desperate nature of the story and the execution. I also mentioned in my review that it reminded me of the work of director Sam Peckinpah. I described it as: "...a dark, action-packed story that's sort of an homage to Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia, except that it's set in wartime and everyone involved is just as sweaty and desperate, like the main character of Warren Oates..."
Johnson: Oh, this is wonderful. What kind and flattering words. Many people wouldn't take this as a compliment, but it's the highest compliment I could ever receive. In truth, this is one of my favorite paintings of his. Usually, everyone refers to his slightly more polished works, like "Wild Bunch", "Ride the Mountains" or "Escape". But for me personally, this painting has always been the most personal, the most transparent, rough and fearless; I like its very texture and vitality, and in second place I have "Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid". This is simply the highest praise for me. He's one of my absolute favorites. I have collected nine biographies of him and various studies regarding him and his works.
Really?
Johnson: Yes. It's funny. I have an entire shelf at home filled with biographies, studies, and reference books. Sam Peckinpah. He is my absolute God. Unfortunately, whenever you read Peckinpah's biography, you are almost immensely depressed by the last year of his life, when he drank himself into oblivion, something I myself hope not to repeat.
(Both laugh)
Johnson: I think if you're just getting to know Peckinpah, you should start with "Escapes", "Wild Bunch" and even "Young Bonner", - from these paintings. But only when you really study him and understand how this man thinks and creates... what his art is, how his pencil glides across the paper, will you also fall in love with these more personal, less showy paintings, where literally only he shines through the screen through the characters. So, I take that as the highest compliment.
I'm glad. "Hell Hath No Fury" is packed with a lot of impressive stunts. I'm guessing it wasn't easy to bring it all to life on screen, given the constraints you were under?
Johnson: You're absolutely right. This is very, very difficult to do without the necessary experience and safety measures, as well as without qualified people doing all the work and choreographing the stunts. Luckily in this case, having a cast that I had worked with before, I already knew their skills and level of preparation. I'm very lucky with Luc Lafontaine, he also plays a role in this film, but besides that, he was my choreographer for twenty years, and he is one of the best in Hollywood, if not in the whole world. Plus, as icing on the cake, I had Daniel Bernhardt, who is arguably one of the top ten choreographers and stuntmen currently working in Hollywood, take the same "Atomic Blonde", "John Wick" и "Nobody". So we had an extraordinarily talented team of stuntmen for this picture, and what otherwise would have been an absolute nightmare - always having to train people, show them how to use firearms, how to move, how to fall correctly - this team has already done this happens repeatedly. I knew that all these guys would care about each other to some extent. When working on action scenes, I feel much more relaxed if I have people around me who know exactly what they are doing and also have a very good understanding of how to keep themselves and the entire crew safe. Even this aspect required a lot of planning and preparation.
I also prefer to shoot with multiple cameras and do dangerous stunts as little as possible, this method helps me work more quickly. But it was a very, very exciting shoot, and everyone contributed to the action scenes. I was even one of the SS officers in this film who was blown up and shot. I did a backflip into my grave, which I definitely shouldn't have done. But I didn't want anyone else to do it because it was a pretty big adjustment to the stunt if we were doing it in a regular movie. That's why I took the initiative. I've had to do this before. I was hit by a car in "Vengeance". You can see this in the trailer. We worked with this actress, she did a great job with all the scenes where she had to run, and she was hired to film a car accident in London. When we had already reached this scene, she glanced at the car, then at the road, then looked at us and said: “No. I passed.” And what to do in such a situation? You can't force someone to do anything against their will. So we filmed the accident later in Sherman Oaks, California. We flipped the film so that it looked like the cars were driving on the opposite side of the road. But it was quite nerve-wracking. At first I didn't break the windshield, I went flying over the car, landing on the roadway, and it was the most painful thing I've ever experienced doing a stunt. But on the second try, I still managed to break it, and, naturally, compared to the first take, it seemed to me as if I had landed on the bed.
Wow! Just think about it.
Johnson: Anyway, the funny thing is that when I was filming "Hell Hath No Fury", I didn’t perceive it as an action movie at all. I thought it was just an amazing drama with an amazing lead character, Marie, played by Nina Bergman, which was layered and deep and had a lot of reasons for doing what it did, it seemed mysterious. After reading the script for about twenty minutes, we still couldn’t figure out who was the bad guy in this story, who were the good guys, who should we empathize with, and that’s what inspired me. Even when I was selling the film, I treated it as a drama and kept telling people that. Some of the crew even said, "We were going to pass on this movie because, based on what you said, we thought it was a drama. And when we all watched it, it had as much action and violence as your other films." I had to rewatch it and say: “Yes, perhaps it’s really too much (laughs).”
This is undoubtedly the level of Hong Kong films of the late 80s, with shootouts and a lot of shots: by the way, very much in the style of John Woo.
Johnson: Interesting. I love his work too. I love early films John Woo, and I am impressed that he started out with comedies, and then made a breakthrough by becoming a stage director, and, as a result, was forced to maintain this bar for the rest of his career. I find this very interesting. But he, in turn, was very inspired by films Jean-Pierre Melville: "Bob the Playmaker", "Red Circle", "Samurai". He is one of my absolute movie gods. Therefore, I clearly see the source material when I look at John's paintings. Of course, in terms of action, Woo has done amazing things that no one has done before, and still no one has come close to his level. But it's interesting to see Wu's directorial influence on my work as clearly as the influence Melville on himself.
I think if you treat cinema with such reverence and completely immerse yourself in it, then this love also shows in your final work. In my opinion, this is one of the reasons why people are really starting to discover and appreciate your films. And the love for cinema that is clearly present in you is visible to the naked eye. Another aspect is that we live in an era where films have become obscenely large and expensive. And for this reason, some viewers these days crave smaller, but more personal films that can still touch a nerve.
Johnson: Yes, there is definitely something in this. I think you're right - there is a part of the audience that wants a handmade product. Of course, you can spend six hundred thousand dollars on a Ferrari that anyone else can buy if they can afford it, and yes, that's cool, that's cool. But it's as impersonal as the same Big Mac from McDonald's. Or you can buy a custom car, assembled especially for you, for half the same cost, but it will be something unique, special, interesting, you can already feel the difference, it speaks about the creator, it speaks about the designer, about the people who tested the car , and I sincerely believe in it. Just so you know, I love Ferrari, I just love it. But there's so much that can be said about something that looks custom-made and doesn't follow any set of rules. I think every major film you watch today, with very few exceptions, has been unable to escape the influence of executives who have never made a film themselves and who lack creativity influence the final product.
Thus, all sharp corners are smoothed out. The films become similar to each other. You can just take a list of fifteen, twenty directors, and any one of them could make something like this, because these films are just a mixture of decisions of different people, based on financing, payback, on what can be effectively sold. And this has always been present in films since 1908, it has been part of the process of making certain films. But I really try very hard to shoot personal paintings... paintings with my signature style. By and large, I make films for myself. I feel like I have pretty good blue collar taste. I've seen a lot of different films, but I especially love going back to the films that appealed to blue collar audiences in the 50s, 60s and 70s. I don’t have particularly outstanding taste, I don’t know if there’s any point in listing them?
Конечно.
Johnson: I really try to have a wide range of knowledge about film. But if you look at the films I love, Peckinpah's early films were huge hits with mass audiences. Melville's paintings were to some extent successful with a wider audience. Howard Hawks и John Ford - two of my movie gods, and their films enjoyed extraordinary success with audiences. But they were creating in the 50s, 60s, and I don't think the human mind has changed that much. We still want the same forms of entertainment. But what is important to me is that my own films are influenced not only by those films that have been made in the last ten, twenty years.
And this is really important because I think this is a shortcoming of many of the younger generation of filmmakers. It feels like people really lack knowledge about film history. Those who consider themselves "film buffs" can, in fact, name only a few films released in the last thirty years. They don't dig deeper and don't try to learn anything from the films of the past. I think it only hurts the craft.
Johnson: This is it, do you dare? This is interesting. I don't think you can call yourself a director until you've really studied the process of making films, films going back at least to the silent film era. It is not necessary to study the era in detail, since it is a completely different form of filmmaking. But it’s still worth getting acquainted with it. Look, for example, "Wings", the first film to win an Oscar for Best Picture. Actually, at first it was filmed without sound, and then the sound track appeared. But after watching these films and understanding them, you will also understand that the language of cinema has developed at an amazing speed, you seem to jump from one era to another, and comprehend so many things... so many things.
I can even visually identify films based on films from the last ten, twenty years. They are all literally imbued with the spirit "Matrix", "Pulp Fiction" and so on. This immediately catches your eye, and you yawn and say to yourself: “Boredom. I know where the legs grow from. Without influence Guy Ritchie it didn't work out here. And that's great, cool, cool, interesting, but your film, at best, will be superficial." Okay, enough about that (laughs). Let's continue discussing "Hell Hath No Fury".
Returning to the cast, I would like to note that one of the new people you brought into your “troupe” was Daniel Bernhardt. I always thought it was underrated by fans of the genre. So it was great to see him have such an atypical and meaningful role here. How did he get involved in this project?
Johnson: I met Daniel in person and I can tell you that the guy was one of the nicest, most genuine, and smartest people I have ever met. We talked for about three and a half hours, and I had a blast just talking to him. He said something like: "I will help you with tricks. I will put on a mustache and beard." I thought: “Yes, yes, of course, no question.” In general, it turned out to be a very pleasant meeting, which made an extremely positive impression on me. But more importantly, after talking to other people, I realized that everything he said about having no ego and wanting to just join the stuntmen and do whatever was required of him was completely true. I was so impressed by this because even as a stuntman, he has now reached the highest level of acting as an opponent and choreographing fights with Charlize Theron и Keanu Reeves.
When this happened and COVID hit, there was only one role that I couldn't sign anyone from my public company for. All the other characters in the film were already ready to be portrayed on screen by my friends, with the exception of the role of von Brückner, SS Sturmbannführer. And then I finally met Bernhardt, he knows French, English, German. I called him and we talked about this character. My God, what a cool performance he played! I admire his work so much. I think he's just great.
I totally agree.
Johnson: I don't want to spoil it, except to say that this character is probably one of the most empathetic in the film, and of course people will say, "Oh my God, but he's a Nazi." You have to watch the movie to understand what I'm talking about. He acts according to his plans, but in truth, he is the only one who shows any compassion. This is a very difficult role. This isn't just a villain thrown into the movie to be there. He's a bad guy who thinks he's good, which is a very difficult thing to play, and Daniel did a brilliant job that just impresses me. I hope this will contribute to the development of his career, and he will begin to play much more complex, interesting and rich roles. I sincerely hope that Chad Stahelski и David Leitch They will see this and say: “My God. All this time he worked for us, and we only gave him minor roles.” And they will finally offer him something worthwhile, because I am very, very grateful to him for the work he has done.
He's phenomenal. I can’t help but think that at any moment his career could suddenly take off, because for so many years he kept the bar so high, but all this time he “remained in the shadows.”
Johnson: I have no doubt that everything will work out for him. He does a very, very serious job. It was he who brought all the stuntmen from 87eleven. Everyone who is in this movie, who you see falling to the ground or flying up from the explosion, these are all the guys from his team who came because he was filming there. Of course, Luke, my regular coordinator, brought quite a few familiar faces, but the vast majority of the stuntmen came from 87eleven thanks to Daniel. And we were incredibly happy about this. Daniel came to the rescue and helped a little with the knife fight near the jeep between Tim Murphy and by that German, the fight was quite ferocious, dirty and in the end looked realistic. But here you need to carefully think through the choreography. If you want to look realistic and dirty, you need more choreography than otherwise, when everything is soft and smooth - that's the irony of cinema.
This is true. It all takes work, planning and some serious brainstorming.
Johnson: Final fight in "Vengeance", which was supposed to look the same... was probably one of the most rehearsed, thoughtful and pre-planned things we've ever done. Scott Adkins ever made, it's dirtier and less stylized. In general, it always turns out so funny with fighting styles. A clean fight demonstrating a traditional martial art is much easier to practice. Everything associated with such fights has a name and technique, which cannot be said about real fights.
And again very correctly noted. I don’t want to change the subject, but you and I haven’t talked since the press gathered in connection with the release of “Vengeance”. Just wanted to ask, how does it feel to see such a positive response to this post release?
Johnson: Oh great. Just great. Both Scott and I are damn pleased with the fact that people are hooked... The film now has a ton of followers. This is incredible. And the effect of the film was so strong that people then watched both parts "Collectors" and loved them too. They saw character and style emerge. In general, people are so funny - first they ask for things they haven't seen before: "Give us something new, Hollywood. Come on, surprise us with something already." And as soon as they receive it, they immediately turn their nose up. But then, the moment they start to get used to you, crowds of followers follow you. People like Scott, they like him in the ironic role, with this dark sense of humor, angry and gruff, but it's like watching your grumpy uncle, and the audience loves that.
"Revenge", in my opinion, was the big crowbar that opened this door. Scott already had a huge following in the Middle East thanks to the film series "Undeniable", but that was not it. And now he has a completely different army of followers, which appeared after "Vengeance". And just like with Daniel, I hope people start to notice that Scott can actually act. What I want to do with Scott is put him in the same category as A actors so that people are forced to recognize him for who he is, which is a phenomenal screen presence and presence that I know he can compete with. with any of these guys. I've worked with them all as a stuntman or director, and I don't see any reason why Scott should have been in these low budget films. It frustrates me because many of them are not made with as much care and attention as "Revenge". But in any case, I would invite Scott to my new film "Hell Hath No Fury", if he wasn't in England, because, as you know, during COVID everything was closed, so we had to rely on a local group that I could turn to. Be that as it may, the lineup turned out to be quite international, which was very interesting.
The cast of the film, in my opinion, is simply amazing. It couldn't be better.
Johnson: Oh, thank you so much, Matthew. You can’t imagine how much this means to me, because you’re worried about the film, you’re on pins and needles, you’re constantly nervous. Although, it was unusual, very unusual. I read the script, and the French version. My French is pretty slow, in the sense that I read like a seven-year-old. And the character he plays Dominic Vandenberg, is actually very similar to Dominic, and I had to re-read the script several times, literally got stuck into it, I even checked it through Google Translate to make sure I was reading everything correctly and not just projecting my imagination onto the text. Basically, he's a short guy with a shaved head, a face like a miner's, and huge hands with calloused knuckles... And my reaction was something like this: "Oh my God, that's Dominic. That's the Dominic I know." Then my cousin, a Frenchman, translated this passage for me, and everyone was like: “Yes, yes, this is exactly the same as Dominic.”
When we were looking for actors for this role, we kept coming up to him and kept begging: “Dom, please play.” And I think he did a great job. In my opinion, this is the best thing he did. His tears are real, they slap him in the face there. And by the way, this is not visible in the film, but I will tell you that Dom was shot, he was beaten mercilessly, he was burned, he was left with cuts and bruises. He has endured every form of torture imaginable, whether by accident or as part of a scene. He was wounded in the face by one of the zirconium guns. Zirconium guns are similar to paintball guns, but are slightly bulkier and fire a .68-gauge plastic projectile filled with zirconium and aquarium gravel, which produces a large spark when fired. It looks great in movies. I enjoy using them and use them instead of blanks quite often. If I need fake guns, I will choose zirconium ones because they are so beautiful. Long story short, he was hit twice in the face and head with one of these guns, and for any normal person this would have ended with a visit to the hospital. I get very upset when this happens. The last thing I want is for anyone to get hurt on the set of my film. But sometimes this happens, and Dominic heroically withstood this test, I don’t even know how, but he literally got used to the role. I really, really like his performance in this film. He's really crazy.
He really surprised me by showing such a wide acting range. He plays the indestructible tough guy so often... because that's what he is. However, it was great to see him vulnerable on screen, it really shows that he can be different if needed. I think he was absolutely brilliant in this role.
Johnson: Thanks a lot. Yes, I liked it myself. It was really funny to watch this happen. Nina worked very hard with him. Remember the scene where she slaps him across the cheeks? It was pure improvisation. I would be very careful with any other actor. Dominic trained in martial arts and got punched in the face God knows how many times, so I wasn’t particularly worried about him. But I didn’t even think that she was going to do this; after all, you never know for sure what to expect from a person. But he accepted it, contained his emotions and channeled them into acting. He started crying in that scene and we used that moment in the film, if you look closely you can see the true surprise on his face when he gets hit. Actually, I don't encourage that, I still have to stick to the script, but when it happens, and it happened that day, you just accept it and try to make the best of the situation. Again, I don't want anyone to get hurt while filming. I always try to avoid this. But in this particular case, it helped a lot. And I think Dominic felt the same way and was deeply grateful because the experience allowed him to reach a level of acting that I don't think he'd ever achieved before.
How did Nina Bergman end up playing the role of "Marie"?
Johnson: The cast of the film had already been confirmed, and filming was about to start; in line for the role of Marie, we had one actress who had received several Russian Oscar awards. We had about forty-eight hours left before filming began, and we still needed to rehearse with the cast. Daniel dropped out of our team due to filming in "The Matrix: Resurrection", Tim Murphy went into a television series "Through the Snow". So, literally, we had a very small window of time to shoot the film, finish it and release it. Due to COVID protocols and other issues, people were taken away from production. That's how things were, we had strictly defined start and end dates for filming. But that actress couldn’t pull off the role and dropped out of the cast. Therefore, I began to beg Nina, with whom I worked on the short film "Wonder Woman" (comic book character DC), since she and I have known each other for a long time. She has already helped me out of trouble. She got me to write the script when I didn't have a penny in my pocket after the stock market crash of 2008. So, at that moment she literally pulled me out of the hole. I called her and said, "I'm so sorry, you're going to have to do this... I need someone to audition for the lead role in this movie."
We couldn't find anyone because the whole "shaving your head" thing scared people away, and everyone who wanted to play her... there were amazing actresses willing to sign on for the role, but none of them wanted to cut their hair. And for me this was a prerequisite. Anyway, Nina came, read her lines, and each member of the cast individually came up to me after she finished reading and said: “You have to take her. You have to take this woman. She was created for this role. Marie."
People cried, grown men cried when she finished reading her lines. And I have no doubt that the ending of the film, this moving finale, will affect each individual person differently. But it had such an effect on those tough guys that tears came to their eyes, and each of them then came up to me and said it personally. Dominic actually took me outside, pushed me in the chest, and believe me, you wouldn’t want Dominic to do something like that to you...
Tough man.
Johnson: …and said, “You’d be a complete idiot if you don’t take this girl.” And then he turned around and left. And at that moment I thought it would be a good idea to go to the financiers and say: “Listen, we have forty-eight hours left.” And anyway, they never questioned it or we would never have made the movie, so it was the best decision that five or six guys ever forced me to make.
I must admit, I didn’t know her before, but she made an impression on me.
Johnson: We had incredible success with the short film "Wonder Woman", which we filmed together. This was before the movie was officially released, and before it was even known that they were even planning to make it. We got a million views, which was an astronomical number at the time. The phone was literally ringing off the hook. I was called in three times by Warners to talk to a DC rep, one male producer and twice with someone even higher up in the hierarchy, and she said, “Look, we like what you've done, but we can't hire you. Are you interested in answering a few questions and staying in touch with us, perhaps we can use the trailer in an informative way?" And I said: "Of course. As you wish."
I gave them carte blanche. There's a shot in the film that appears in the trailer that's a direct reference to my trailer - a slow motion shot of the rifle breaking as she kicks it. In their film, the action takes place during the First World War, while my short film shows the Second World War, but the frame is identical. Our little trailer that we shot could be a preview of the film. I don't mind, and I take it as the highest compliment imaginable, so it's okay. They immediately told me that the director would be a woman, and there was no way in hell a man would sit in the director's chair for this film. I didn't mind at all.
Actually, Nina got to the final fifth audition for the main role in the official film "Wonder Woman", and then she said that they had pictures from our trailer posted on the wall of their casting office, and she told them, “That’s me. That’s me in the photo.” And they objected: “No, no, she has black hair.” And she told them: “No, I dyed my hair for the filming of the trailer.” They were so close to the vision of our concept. There's something about Nina. And it always has been. I knew that she had energy and strength, but in order for this to manifest itself, a certain project was needed. And I think that the films she starred in... yes, take the same sequels "Car" и "DOOM", I saw them, they were done hastily, it’s very... a real actor needs more time to get into the role. The actor needs to be given a certain direction. There needs to be a level of trust and understanding of what he's doing, who he's playing, and the backstory needs to be very clear. And Nina is a methodical actress, she gets used to the character, she lives his life. Then we have a lot of discussions, and during these discussions questions arise about what happened before, where she comes from, what her background is, why she wears this item of clothing, why she decided to do her hair this way. And if you, as a director, have the time to communicate with your actor and bring it to the screen, then you will get an incredible performance.
I think in the case of those films, maybe there wasn't as much effort put into developing the backstory, which makes it harder for Nina to open up under those conditions. But I think she's absolutely brilliant, and I think what she did in Hell Hath No Fury was truly phenomenal. It takes my breath away every time I see her dedication. I'm a pretty tough director. I don't mince words and try my best, and it's just amazing to work with someone when you're in sync with them, like Nina and I were.
This just highlights what I think is an important element of your work, and what sets you apart from other filmmakers who work within similar budgetary constraints, with similar themes, and in some cases even with the same actors. You are more likely to direct actors. That attention and subtlety that goes into character motivation and story - I know other directors do the best they can within the system, but that dedication to story often gets pushed aside in an attempt to simply finish the film. However, in relation to your work, I never get the feeling that the story is being sacrificed just to shoot more frames in a day.
Johnson: An amazing compliment. In general, the character comes first for me, and then the story. It's important for me to know what lengths this character is willing to go to and how convincing he is. My main job is to sit and listen to what the actor says, watch what he does, and find believability in it. And from this everything else follows: action, history, plot, fight scenes. Everything works as it should, if you have a character, if that character is believable, if the action develops the way you want it to, and it's honest, sincere and truthful - then everything else rises to a higher level and only gets better. For example, when people look "Bullitt", they think they're seeing the greatest car chase in cinema, but in reality, it's just a good car chase. But you see Steve McQueen, at that moment in the film when this chase occurs, you empathize with his character so much that by the time you watch this scene, you will already be fidgeting in your seat with impatience.
It's important to me to create these believable, interesting, compelling characters, and I love that approach. I'm not that interested in filmmakers working at the same budget level. And, as bold as it may sound, I don’t see any budget restrictions when I throw myself into work. I look at my favorite directors as some kind of value that I have to reach... shall I continue?
Конечно.
Johnson: I'm interested in the work of these people. They are my competitors and this is my way of focusing. If I watched films from the niche that I work in, to be honest, I would get depressed. I've already tried it and it's boring.
In looking for inspiration for this film, we intended to be very, very careful with how we showed World War II. From the time of "Saving Private Ryan" и "Brothers in Arms" A huge number of films about the Second World War of lower quality appeared. We are with John Hall We watched about three or four of them, and we just didn’t have the patience for more. It was absolutely depressing. They were so bad, so terrible, the frame was so poorly constructed and everything was filmed so poorly. They shook the camera so it looked like it was in a movie. "Saving Private Ryan", without even understanding why the operator Janusz Kaminski used this trick, why did he remove the filters from the lens, why did he work with a tilting shutter. They didn't understand this. They simply imitated the technique or style of filming, imitating it very poorly. It was just depressing. Therefore, we went back to the 60s, 50s and even the late 40s. We watched war films of those eras for fun: "Where the Eagles Nest", "Kelly's Heroes" и "Walk in the Sun", these are the films. These pictures are what we relied on, they used a wonderful original anamorphic lens that doesn't just cut your film down to 2:35, but a real anamorphic lens. It distorts the image a little; What gives it a slightly surreal feel is the color palette and lens choice, which were obviously 1960s Cook lenses on a modern camera. But we were very, very influenced by classic World War II films, and we wanted to bring that familiar feeling to the audience who spent a Saturday night watching "The Great Escape" with their dad or grandpa so they'll think, "Oh, there's something familiar about this movie." And suddenly we are telling a completely different, touching story in such a visual design.
It's funny that you mentioned lenses. I was just about to ask how you managed to achieve such a “cinematic quality” in your latest films. There is clearly no “digital gloss” here that has already filled so many films shot in digital format.
Johnson: My deputy Jonathan Hall, with whom I worked fanatically and very hard on this film. We both love movies. We love cinema history. We love classic cinema. In a nutshell, there's a lot that goes into this. We create a story that will play out in front of the camera. The camera serves as a tool to record the story and convey it to the audience in as effective and dramatic a way as possible. What the current generation is doing... their big mistake is that they shake the camera, thus creating an illusion. They use After Effects, influence the image with the help of color, and very quickly you realize that this is just some kind of game of thimbles, played by people who cannot shake their hands in time and, in fact, create a script in front of the camera, which is much more important.
People talk to me about lenses and cameras, modern names and numbers, but I don’t know any of this. I don't care about any of this. I really do not know. If you tell me to make my next film on Panavision 1970, I will be no more intrigued than if I filmed it on mini LF, the one that was used for filming "1917" , for which, by the way, I made two films. It is no different from any other camera. It's about what you capture, that's what's important... bring it to life and frame it in a way that audiences can see, enjoy and appreciate - whether it's a fight scene, or a beautiful woman, or a luxury car from the 1940s, or a guy who survived a tragedy. You want to give the audience enough space to fully appreciate it. The width of the human eye, approximately 35 millimeters, is our visual range. And I noticed that I was working with 35mm or 40mm lenses. As I get older, I use fewer and fewer different focal lengths. Instead, I move the camera closer or move it further away. That is, I physically move the camera.
I noticed that the stories became more and more elegant because I worked hard with the actors. I work with the production designer designing the sets, I work with the prop master and make sure the props are beautiful, I work with the writer and make sure the dialogue is as authentic and powerful as possible, I work with the director, and making sure the lighting is beautiful. That's what really matters. The camera needs to capture it, and you place it in the right place to capture it beautifully, but you don't try to create an illusion, you don't try to swing the camera, poke it in the viewer's nose, or otherwise twirl it. And it seems to me that now everyone has become obsessed with nomenclature and which camera is better to shoot with, but people are not thinking about that at all. This has nothing to do with the story. Storytelling is what comes to the fore. That's it, I'm already carried away (laughs).
If there's one person that John and I have always tried to emulate, it's Paul Thomas Anderson. I was lucky enough to work with him on "Master", and I saw the absolute disdain he had for camera tricks. If anyone on his set mentions VFX or post effects, he gets kicked out or reprimanded, usually in a humorous way, but there is some truth to it. And to this end I also observed how he worked with Joaquin Phoenix, the principle of his work was to ensure that Joaquin always remained in character. There was a note on the call sheet that said you should address him by his character name "Freddy" rather than his real name. And then it dawned on me: “My God. Is this really possible?” It was some kind of epiphany. You can also establish rules of the game, adhere to a way of working in which people will respect the acting and the storytelling process. And they will do it, just ask them. I thought this was great and have been using this method ever since. Without unsettling the actors, without disturbing them, I just move the camera back enough so that you can see their work, so that the audience can appreciate it, because what the actors do is truly magical.
On this positive note, I propose to wrap things up. Anything else you'd like to add at the end?
Johnson: If you have a chance to watch "Hell Hath No Fury" at one of the selected cinemas, I would highly recommend doing this. It was shot, framed and designed to be viewed on the big screen. It was shot using an anamorphic lens in 2:35 format. The film feels completely different when you watch it on the big screen. It's also great to watch on a widescreen TV, but if you get the chance... go ahead and watch it in a theater. It's really brilliant, the acting is great, I'm very proud of this film and everyone who worked on it.
Official source: filmcombatsyndicate.com
Date of publication: 13.11.2021
Translation: Black Dragon
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Tags: Hell Hat No Fury, Jesse W. Johnson, Dominic Vanderberg, Daniel Bernhard, Luc Lafontaine, Nina Bergman, Tim Murphy
Tags: Hell Hat No Fury, Jesse W. Johnson, Dominic Vanderberg, Daniel Bernhard, Luc Lafontaine, Nina Bergman, Tim Murphy
Thank you so much for translating such an interview that is healthy in size and healthy in content!
Danil Chupakhin,
Please! An interview with Josh Maybee is also in the works.
Black Dragon,
And when the time comes, Lundgren’s interview appeared there on the occasion of the release of “The Fall of the Castle” -> https://kungfukingdom.com/interview-with-dolph-lundgren/
Danil Chupakhin,
Okay, I'll add it to my list.
Black Dragon,
This is great news!